Curse

Esan · Jan 16, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Brawling Headbutt: Reduce required Adrenaline to 4. Add a removes all adrenaline clause.

This would make the dwarven boxing tournament unreasonably hard. Also, this is not necessary if SY! is also being nerfed according to your plan.

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Signet of Corruption: Remove damage.

Why?

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Pain Inverter: Fix bug to make it act like the description (Max 80 instead of Max80 per person affected).

It is actually max 80 per packet of damage, not per person. By the way, if total damage from the hex is capped, then the energy cost and recharge should both be extremely reduced. Otherwise the skill becomes rubbish.

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Dwarven Stablility - Change to - for 10-20 seconds, your stances last 20-50% longer.

Why? Is a 6 second Dash or a permanent Serpent's Quickness that game breaking?

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You move like a Dwarf - Target foe has only a 50% chance of being knocked down.

50% chance of completely wasting 10 energy? No thanks.

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Raven Blessing - Skill totally reworked to remove the whole skillbar replacement concept. For 40-60 seconds you assume the avatar of the raven. While in this form, you are immune to knockdown have a 10-30% block chance, your attacks cause blind and bleeding and your skills recharge 30-50% faster. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. The in mission blessing remains uneffected

Ursan Blessing - Skill totally reworked to remove the whole skillbar replacement concept. For 40-60 seconds you assume the avatar of the bear. While in this form, you gain 100hp, and your attacks do an additional 10-15 damage and have a 5-10% chance of knocking down your target. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. The in mission blessing remains uneffected

Volfen Blessing - Skill totally reworked to remove the whole skillbar replacement concept. For 40-60 seconds you assume the avatar of the wolf. While in this form, you gain +4-6 health regeneration, and you move and attack 33% faster. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. The in mission blessing remains uneffected

You forgot to say, make them not elite. Your proposed change reduces these skills to the level of utter garbage. Actually worse than garbage. Lightbringer Signet is better than your proposed Ursan Blessing. Have some sense.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 16, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

for god's sake, if you don't like ursan blessing...DONT use it!

You're suggesting I gimp myself? That I intentionally make a worse skillbar than I can?
That's contrary to the very idea of Guildwars.

As is Ursan Blessing as a whole, as it makes skillbars obsolete. One skill replaces all professions and skills.

Ursan makes a lie of ANets talk about rewarding skill - there is no skill involved in running Ursan - just like the titles made a lie of the talk about how skill, not time spent grinding, was was GW was about.

It doesn't help that Ursan is bugged (make a dervish/mesmer, use arcane mimicry to copy ursan from a friend, start your avatar skill, start ursan... and hey, you've now got ursan until you zone, and you can run it concurrently with Avatar of Balthazar & Drunken Master for a stupid amount of armor and permanent speed&IAS boost, or Avatar of Lyssa for some extra energy management.)

GW just totally lost its way in the last year - and I can't help but wonder if it's due to NCSoft taking a more hands-on approach to the game.

JeniM · Jan 16, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

URSAN BLESSING IS RUINING MY GAME EXPERIANCE but i'm not going to stop using it......

Makes sence to me

upier · Jan 16, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

^its really sad some people dont understand after 2 years + that pve needs balance too.
but carry on thinking that pulling levers and switching gears is the normal way to go round changing meta.

Check the trees.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10221879

Say it with me:
PvE needs balance - but it's really sad that people don't understand that the only time it gets it it's when people bitch things are too hard!

Buster · Jan 16, 2008, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Paragon - Need a reason to play paragon again. Some command and motivation buffs would be nice.

Put Mystic Regeneration where it belongs in Mysticism so that caster classes can't stack 4+ enchants and become more powerful than what they were intented to be. Such as Ele's perhaps ? Tons of damage with pips of regen that go through the roof. Hooray for balance

Ranger - Slightly increase recharge rate of ranger interrupts. Seen many people get interrupted 4 times in seconds and not even be able to get a cast off. Way too powerful, caster classes don't even have a chance. Doubt it will happen though.

Touch rangers simply need to go. Other than crippling a touch ranger what other weakness does it have ? Can't think of any. Someone gotta help me on this one.

Monk - Slightly decrease the heal amount to WOH for monks. Way too powerful. WOH builds are good but we don't need them to be godly.

Necro - They nerfed hexes and soul reaping, what can possibly be next ? Looks like Death and Blood magic is on the hit list. Let me guess dark bond, infuse condition and possibly Offering of Blood ? Nahh OOB is good, touch ranger ftw right ? :/

Mesmer - Buffs only please. Been changed so much i would wear a mask too to hide the shame ?

Assassin,Wars,Ritualist and Dervish is all good. Though still to many try to tank as assassin which is why some want buffs.

Simply just guesses here since I have no idea what they will do but it was fun giving my input :P

TimTimTimma · Jan 16, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

I hope they create an option to enlarge the HP bars over players heads. Would make finding a target easier when playing war.

P.S.

Nerf Ursan
Nerf Augury of Death (longer recharge please!)
Change glimmer of light around, make it perhaps more like an elite dwaynas kiss or elite words of comfort? The heal alone doesn't compete with word of healing.
Do something about splinter weapon it's everywhere, and it's very stale!
Buff distortion....
BUFF RAY OF JUDGEMENT!! 15 energy is ridiculous considering its 30 second recharge and disabling of all spells except those in smiting. This skill is very unattractive right now. 10e, 1c, 15r would be nice
Shadow Walk needs a shorty recharge, say like 20 seconds?

DreamWind · Jan 16, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

We DO (and thats another topic entirely) the thing is those changes do not mean the same thing to pve as to pvp, BALANCE does not mean the same thing in pve and pvp, that is the reason they should be SEPARATE.

YES we will "bitch" about it as long as the skills remain LINKED.
this "bitching" will take on many forms of blame but the only solution is to separate them.

They should be seperate, but they aren't and never will be (at least until Guild Wars 2). Thus, PvP requires balance far more than PvE, and any required PvP changes that effect PvE negatively should quite frankly be ignored.

Besides, PvE is stupidly easy because of Ursan. As far as I'm concerned all other "PvE balance" shouldn't even be discussed.

cellardweller · Jan 16, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

This would make the dwarven boxing tournament unreasonably hard. Also, this is not necessary if SY! is also being nerfed according to your plan.

The skill you use in the tornment is not the same one you use in pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Why?

Offering of Spirits + 96attribute points + elite slot = 1 energy/sec
Signet of Spirits + 96attribute points + elite slot = 0.5 energy/sec
Signet of Corruption + 0attribute points + ordinary slot = 0.8 energy/sec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

It is actually max 80 per packet of damage, not per person. By the way, if total damage from the hex is capped, then the energy cost and recharge should both be extremely reduced. Otherwise the skill becomes rubbish.

Backfire has 50% coverage and costs 15e, takes 3 seconds, effects only spells and requires attibute points. Pain inverter has 50% coverage, costs 10e casts in 1 second, effects spells, skills and ordinary attacks.

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Originally Posted by Esan

Why? Is a 6 second Dash or a permanent Serpent's Quickness that game breaking?

Yes, gaining a permanent 33% recharge on all skills from a non-elite slot is broken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

50% chance of completely wasting 10 energy? No thanks.

80 armor ignoring damage and cripple on a shout with no attribute points spent is more than worth 10e and a skill slot on its own. Adding the 50% modifier gives you the added benefit of a knockdown without letting the skill replace gale by being superior to it in every way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

You forgot to say, make them not elite. Your proposed change reduces these skills to the level of utter garbage. Actually worse than garbage. Lightbringer Signet is better than your proposed Ursan Blessing. Have some sense.

The modified UB is utter garbage? Lets compare it to what is arguably the best pve dervish elite - Lyssa. Lyssa gives +41 damage to foes activating. Assuming a generous 30% hit rate, that gives an average of 12.3 which is less than the proposed UB's +15. Lyssa gives +20e which is exactly equivilent to 100hp (20xradiant vs 20xsurvivor). On top that UB gets a chance of a knockdown. If you're trying to say that a skill that is better than the best dervish skill around is garbage, I suggest you stop using overpowered pve skills for a while and gain an understanding of what balance is. If anything, the skills are still overpowered, especially raven.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 16, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Touch rangers simply need to go. Other than crippling a touch ranger what other weakness does it have ? Can't think of any. Someone gotta help me on this one.

In RA and AB (where Touch Rangers are generally seen) you should primarily be running either support; spikes; or shutdown (barring the less common builds that some guilds like to run in AB such as the Reversed Insanity Minion Mob, and these unique builds generally steamroll the enemy as long as the guild, Reversed Insanity for example, is [or was] skilled in build creation and execution). Support should not be concerned with killing the opposition, they should be concerned with enchants/heals/spirits/whatever. Spikes will simply outdo the life steal of the touch ranger. And shutdown (in this case interrupts) will just shut down a touch ranger.

Touch Rangers are not an issue. They may take out an unsuspecting noob but any half-decent player should have no problems as long as they're playing with guild or friends (in AB) or managed to avoid the unlucky Mending Wammo + RA BiP Necro* + Narutotard Sin draw (from the random RA player draw).

It's 3:00 AM so I'm not 100% sure what I said in this post and am too sleepy to read it and find out.

*BiP is great but not in RA. In RA it's just going to be of little to no use.

Sleeper Service · Jan 16, 2008, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Check the trees.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10221879

Say it with me:
PvE needs balance - but it's really sad that people don't understand that the only time it gets it it's when people bitch things are too hard!

this is sadly true, but its not the complainers fault.

Anet has been treating the symptoms for far too long now, how about taking a look at the source of the issue?

Numa Pompilius · Jan 16, 2008, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Monk - Slightly decrease the heal amount to WOH for monks. Way too powerful. WOH builds are good but we don't need them to be godly.

/Signed. WoH is way overpowered now.

upier · Jan 16, 2008, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

this is sadly true, but its not the complainers fault.

Anet has been treating the symptoms for far too long now, how about taking a look at the source of the issue?

You mean reworking 4 chapters of PvE (normal AND hard mode) and all PvE-only skills?

They have hats to design!

Surena · Jan 16, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Paragon - Need a reason to play paragon again. Some command and motivation buffs would be nice.

I am curious: What makes the Paragon bad and where? Pvp? Cared to watch some GvG builds lately and before?

Don't dare to ask about their state in PvE.

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Put Mystic Regeneration where it belongs in Mysticism so that caster classes can't stack 4+ enchants and become more powerful than what they were intented to be. Such as Ele's perhaps ? Tons of damage with pips of regen that go through the roof. Hooray for balance

The game should not be balanced with RA and AB in mind. There's no invincibility in these Mystic-Builds.
If your team in AB consisting of FOUR players doesn't have the slightest enchant removal in the build, you are to blame. Not to forget there also mechanics like interruption...

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Ranger - Slightly increase recharge rate of ranger interrupts. Seen many people get interrupted 4 times in seconds and not even be able to get a cast off. Way too powerful, caster classes don't even have a chance. Doubt it will happen though.

Mageban shot needs a look at, the others are fine, even though Dshot is quite frightening.

Quote:

Touch rangers simply need to go. Other than crippling a touch ranger what other weakness does it have ? Can't think of any. Someone gotta help me on this one.

Degen, Diversion, Dshot kill them. Together with them being only played in RA or AB, I think it's a non-issue.

Quote:

Monk - Slightly decrease the heal amount to WOH for monks. Way too powerful. WOH builds are good but we don't need them to be godly.

I don't think they are godly, they actually give monks a very decent selfheal now, plus they require investing alot into a 3rd attribute. The first buff to WoH was overpowered, yes, the second I think not.

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Necro - They nerfed hexes and soul reaping, what can possibly be next ? Looks like Death and Blood magic is on the hit list. Let me guess dark bond, infuse condition and possibly Offering of Blood ? Nahh OOB is good, touch ranger ftw right ? :/

I'd like hexes to be even shorter but much more dangerous in their effect, of course not on the same idiotic level as Ineptitude/Clumsyness used to be.

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Mesmer - Buffs only please. Been changed so much i would wear a mask too to hide the shame ?

Buffs where? Inspiration line? Probably yes. Anywhere else? They see play in all the important PvP forms and there's a reason behind that. Regarding PvE there would have to be much more to change to make Mesmers appealing, which we will never happen to see.

Sleeper Service · Jan 16, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You mean reworking 4 chapters of PvE (normal AND hard mode) and all PvE-only skills?

They have hats to design!

no, by either forcing sealed deck play, draft play, limited edition play, letting meta establish itself by informing the community of counters, using env effects to counter set meta in pvp and thus forcing it to cycle out...

OR just unlink pvp and pve skills and create one STABLE skillset used for pve (such as the pve aspect was originally designed around) and carry on with the fiddling about for the pvp part.

PicardSunstar · Jan 16, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

i think that anet should:

1) remove all skills
2) remove all classes and replace with gray blobs
3) remove all ranks, titles, guilds, anything to make you stand out
4) have the game be you run in a mob, hit it with a blob, it dies, everyone gets the same drop, 1 pile of glittering dust, and you cant get more than 1 per day per account.

then everything is balanced and people can stop bitching about everything
/sarcasm
/thread

Fried Tech · Jan 16, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Way to pwn yourself. As much as I didn't like previous situation with holy trinity, there's only monks and Ursan now.
So, 3 classes being used is still better than 1 class being used and 1 skill.

You think Ursan is a class?!

trobinson97 · Jan 16, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by PicardSunstar

i think that anet should:

1) remove all skills
2) remove all classes and replace with gray blobs
3) remove all ranks, titles, guilds, anything to make you stand out
4) have the game be you run in a mob, hit it with a blob, it dies, everyone gets the same drop, 1 pile of glittering dust, and you cant get more than 1 per day per account.

then everything is balanced and people can stop bitching about everything
/sarcasm
/thread

Very much in agreement, except the sarcasm part. It's always the same whining idiots that turn every thread into an Ursan cryfest. At this point, not only would I mind Anet closing down the servers, I'd embrace it.

Buster · Jan 16, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Most teams in PVP as Paragon use P/W and totally disregard the motivation and command skills all together. Yeah there are other builds but P/W is most widely used. I just think the command and motivation skills need to be more attractive to use for people. As for PVE , well I just don't see too many Paragons runnng around since the release of NF. Must be a reason for it right ?

Yes RA and AB should be considered when balancing because even though it is a casual form of PVP it doesn't mean you ignore it. It is still a part of the game that many people like to play.

WOH was given too much of a boost because noone was using it due to ZB and RC prot monks being the better soloution to team builds. It just needs a slight reduction nothing major here.

Other than ele due to their damage rangers are the most powerful class in the game because of interrupts. At 15 expertise, even at 14 expertise I was able to spam all my interrupts endlessly and still have energy to boot. It's just my opinion but a class that can endlessly spam skills and still have alot of energy left is just too powerful for any class to handle.

The inspiration line of Mesmers has always been changed and mesmers are getting less and less energy return with almost every balance change. Mesmers just have too many 15 e spells. They need to change that if they are going to constantly slash away at the inspiration line.

Hexes don't need nerfing anymore but what does need changing is the amount of hexes that can be placed on a single target.

Also eles do not need to have spells that grant them energy return. They already have attunements plus glyph of lesser energy is more than enough. Certainly we don't want to nerf ele damage but granting them additional ways to get energy in the form of spells is like saying I can have my cake and eat it too. If they want more energy there is always the mesmer class to help them. Mind Blast and Glowing Gaze need changing.

ensoriki · Jan 16, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

At this point, not only would I mind Anet closing down the servers, I'd embrace it.

This quote has been found Guilty of extreme stupidity.
God has just killed 3 kittens, round house kicked a puppy and peed in your water supply.

Embracing the closing of servers because people are whining while still playing the game, is silly
______________

Quote:

Yes RA and AB should be considered when balancing because even though it is a casual form of PVP it doesn't mean you ignore it. It is still a part of the game that many people like to play.

That's true, they should at least be given thought.
However balancing something because people do not wish to change is not an excuse.

Most people who complain about things like Mystic regen (most not all) are complaining because they don't want to change their build and instead want to bring a one minded power house build, and then blame a skill as overpowered.

If your build can't do something, 1 of your team mates should hopefully be able to do it. If your team can't that's not A-nets fault.

Esprit · Jan 16, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

seven heroes.
unlinking of pve and pvp skills.
alliance roster.
title management.
hero management.
some solution to multiple character title grind.

Unfortunately none of those fall under 'Skill Balance', so it may be a little much to hope for.

People keep mentioning the Mesmer class, but I think people will always complain about it until they are cheapened to be able to output long-term spammable damage.

I look forward to the update.